Monday, September 22, 2008

Are you a Conservative or a Christian?

They don't go together. They never have gone together, and they never will go together. This so called "Religious Right" movement started in the 70's. It's purpose at that time was to organize and oppose Roe V. Wade. Look at what it's become since then. Conservatives would like to tell you that they are part of the moral party or the party with Traditional Values. They would also like to tell you how liberals have destroyed not only the morality of this Country, but also have led us away from traditional values.

Well, as an outsider not affiliated with either party, it's easy to see that Conservative members especially the Politicians are no more moral than liberals. It's a preached mechanism to divide. We as people are natural followers. We like to be a part of something. It is shameful that this division is preached in Churches on Sundays and people simply grow up this way.

Most Conservatives I talk to are Christian or at least call themselves this, and have been fed these lines of morality and traditional values ever since they could think on their own. It is shameful, and it goes against Christ's most precious teachings.

If you divide yourself, you are not following the Teachings.
If you make yourself part of something that demonizes other ideologies and philosophies, you are not following the Teachings.

And as previously stated, if you are not following the Teachings, you are not being a Christian. Calling yourself one doesn't make you one.

The Religions and Churches affiliated with Conservatism and preaches Conservatism are taking you away from God and the words of His Son.

Are you a Conservative or a Christian? You have to pick one, because you can't be both.

I will love thy neighbor with complete conviction. Show me examples from the Conservative movement that practices this.

Being a Conservative and a member of Institutionalized Religion in association with Conservatism is adjacent to following the Open path.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

I'm neither. Much as the christian right is wrong, It's my opinion that you are too.

Because a person claimed to be god, and his message was peace and love, doesn't make him a god. He also claimed he came with a sword, to divide families.

He told his mother that his "family" were the people he was preaching to. He claimed to be the incarnate god mentioned in the Old Testament, and broke the Old Testament commandment of honoring one's mother and father.

He's no more a god than Gandhi or Dr. King. The only difference is that he claimed to be one.

Botts said...

Anonymous,

Thanks for visiting, and more importantly thank you for the feedback.

Jesus didn't bring a sword to divide families. It's a metaphorical statement talking about using this sword to fight our immorality that we are born with. That is what that statement means.

You can't know or understand what is written until you practice what motivated the Teachings.

Loving God and Loving your neighbor. Until then, it is just words with different meanings and interpretations. This is why Institutionalized Religion is so successful.

He didn't claim to be God. He claimed to be the Son of God.

Thanks again for your comment.

Saint Brian the Godless said...

I think you're right about all you say here.

Again, I think our only area of disagreement is that you still see merit in the bible, even though you admit that it takes someone who is aware of the "first two commandments" of Jesus to decipher their good meanings, and also admit that most Christians don't know how to do that. But anyhow, I'd love to see you spread your version of Christianity as much as possible since I can see that there's no evil or hypocrisy in it whatsoever. (Excepe maybe that book already mentioned of course)

Good post. I like it.

Saint Brian the Godless said...

Hey Botts, I have a link to your blog up on mine. Hope you don't mind. I don't really recommend that you return the favor as much as I'd like the additional advertisement, since I think it might turn off new potential posters to your place if they see mine listed as one that you recommend. And I want yours to do as well as possible since I think your message needs to get out.

Luv ya, bro.

pboyfloyd said...

I have a 'picture'of the galaxy 'Andromeda'(M31) as 'wallpaper' for my PC.

This 'picture' is 'real' AND 'imaginary'.

If I had eyes that could collect light over time and compile a 'picture' then 'sure' , 'Andromeda' "looks" just like that.

Trouble is, no-one HAS eyes like that, no-one's eyes collect light quite like a camera.

We all seem to believe that if we only WERE a certain distance from a galaxy, as on the 'Starship Enterprise' for example, then what we'd see is exactly the same as a time exposure of 'some galaxy'.

The majority of folk have no problem imagining being on the 'Starship Enterprise', looking out the window and 'seeing' a galaxy just like the pictures we see of a time exposure of a galaxy.

If you can't see what I'm getting at there then I don't think you are trying.


Next, imagine that guy with the 'walrus moustache' talking about 'living a better life'(on the T.V. commercial) and you see an 'image'of someone cutting up a celery!

If this is a joke, it is NOT funny to ME! I like to smoke, I like to have a drink, I LIKE MEAT!

Eating 'celery' as the 'good life'? Yech!

The weird thing is that I imagine most people NOT actually believing in magic or spirituality, I believe that it, like the image of the galaxy or the idea that eating celery is 'the good life' is how it, 'spirituality'(magic), has been presented to us and most of us accept it.

To me, religion and magic are the exact same thing, magic being 'a disappearing coin' and such and religion being the notion that we are 'spirits' in the material world.

Sure we can imagine spirituality. But imagination and spirituality are the same thing(in my mind) but they are not SUPPOSED to be the same thing in 'popular imagination', not the 'same thing' at all.

mac said...

Botts,
This installment from you is spot on.

I feel if more people would be what they say they are, we would be in much better shape as a society.

It's easy to say you're a christian and demonize other beliefs, but if one looks to the words of Jesus, he advocates a much different course of action....a conundrum not many 'christians can answer.

Richelle said...

here is my biggest problem with labels:

the more labels a person has the more they disassociate themself with, and become blind to, the whole of humanity.

labels are an easy way for people to separate themselves from people they disagree with. politicians use terms like "conservative" and "liberal" and "republican" as an end to a means. they want to get elected and labels are the best way to turn the opponent into an enemy.

it is easy to look at a person by a label and decide, before you even know them, that you don't like them and disagree with them. you've already made a stereotype for that group of people so you don't mind writing them off.

people aren't just people anymore. they are christian, or atheist, or jewish, or muslim, or black, or white, or whatever. even within one category there can be sub-categories, like in christianity. the more labels you give a person in order to distance yourself from their opinions the less empathy you have for them. you forget they feel all the same emotions you do.

people easily forget the most important things: we ALL want what's best for our families and the people we love and our country. we may have different ideas about how that is best achieved, but we all support our ideas with the same passion.

i think the best thing, and it may be the hardest thing, to do is stop trying to own our opinions. we need to emotionally disconnect from our opinions in order to be open to new ideas and stop taking criticism of our opinions personally. an idea is just an idea, and we are all so much more than just that.

Eric said...

"They don't go together. They never have gone together, and they never will go together."

There's an ambiguity here. If you mean that they don't go together 'necessarily,' then of course you're correct. But if you mean that they don't go together 'logically,' then you're obviously wrong.

There's also a problem with vagueness. There are a variety of different types of conservatives (perhaps the category is exhausted by its examples, in which case there are as many different types of conservatism as there are conservatives).

"If you divide yourself, you are not following the Teachings.
If you make yourself part of something that demonizes other ideologies and philosophies, you are not following the Teachings."

Why didn't you adress liberals who happen to be Christians? Not all Christians are politically conservative, you know. Note that what you wrote above applies to political liberals as well, since they quite often demonize conservatives. It seems to me as if you're just posturing here, and trying to score points with your liberal friends. At the very least, the post should've mentioned something along the lines of, "By the way, what I'm saying applies to liberals as well."

Botts said...

Godless,

Thanks for the messages and your agreement. Of course we'll never agree on the Bible until you see what I see. And that is a tough task. Plus your history with Religion sucks. It's no wonder you think the way you do. And I don't have any problems with that.

Love you too

And I love the symbol and what it means.

Botts said...

"The weird thing is that I imagine most people NOT actually believing in magic or spirituality, I believe that it, like the image of the galaxy or the idea that eating celery is 'the good life' is how it, 'spirituality'(magic), has been presented to us and most of us accept it."

Pboy,

Your post brings up several outstanding points. I can't really disagree with them, because I agree with them.

The majority just accepts it. They don't do what they're supposed to do to give them enough knowledge to either reject it or accept it.

Botts said...

Richelle,

I don't like labels either, but unfortunately they will be here forever.

Botts said...

Hey Eric, welcome, and thanks for stopping by and offering your insight. Another "thought experiment"? Maybe?

"Why didn't you adress liberals who happen to be Christians?"

The majority of Conservatives make it the overwhelming majority of conservatives are members of one form or another of Institutionalized religion. Ask 10 of them the following question, and most likely 8 will tell you no.

Can a liberal be a Christian?

"Not all Christians are politically conservative, you know."

I completely agree with you. I'm not a Conservative. But that's my point. Being a Christian means that we don't divide ourselves. That's the point of the post. You say logically they go together, but logically they don't.

"Note that what you wrote above applies to political liberals as well, since they quite often demonize conservatives."

Conservatives always rail against Liberals for not having morals or having traditional family values.

"It seems to me as if you're just posturing here, and trying to score points with your liberal friends."

Clearly, this post was directed to my Conservative friends.

"At the very least, the post should've mentioned something along the lines of, "By the way, what I'm saying applies to liberals as well.""

But it doesn't apply to liberals. They don't claim to be the "Moral" or "Religious" or "Traditional Family Values" party.

And if you are a Christian, thinking this goes hand in hand with Conservatism is false. Logically false at that. Read the teachings, and live the teachings.

pboyfloyd said...

Aww, poor eric crashes and burns trying to be Darth Vader to Botts's Obiwan Kenobi!

GearHedEd said...

Hey, Botts!

I stumbled in here from Brians new blog, so I read the posts. I probably won't be able to contribute much here since I don't believe, but good luck with your blog and have a great day.

Botts said...

Gearheded,

Thanks for stopping by, and I hope you continue to stop by and add your thoughts.

There will definitely be posts geared towards Atheists and Agnostics as well. Your input is essential. We need all faiths and lack of faiths to come together.

oneblood said...

Botts,

I agree almost wholeheartedly. I think there are genuine humble conservative christians. I think there are genuine humble people of all sorts.

Yet your point is valid. The idea of American conservatism being a hallmark of what it means to be a christian is ludicrous.

GearHedEd said...

Botts,
There's a flip side to the 'Conservative does NOT equal Christian' mantra.
I'm a vocal atheist, but not the 'no-conscience flaming liberal' as the others on DD's blogs liked to paint us.
There's definitely room for individuality on both sides here.

BTW, Call me Gear, OK? It's much easier. The handle derives from my passion for late '60s musclecars (I have 4, but nothing worth showing now. They were all abused by previous owners).

Kodiak said...

I often wonder how much people's use of religion (I am speaking of institutionalized) would change if our thoughts could be read.
I remember when the Moral Majority first rose up to oppose Roe V Wade. I saw the types of women, especially, who opposed it.
Funny thing about me...in real life I am not much of a talker. I have neurological difficulties that make social interactions very uncomfortable, both for me and for the person on the receiving end. This mean I end up doing a lot of observing of other people's social interactions.
What I saw back then were women who were SAYING that abortion was murder, but what I was observing was jealousy. The women who seemed to be the most vocal opponents were also the ones who'd "had" to get married (most often, not happily) and who had "done their duty" to raise their kids. The part they were leaving unsaid was "If I had to do it, then YOU should have to do it too!!!" And there was a lot of anger and envy behind those thoughts.
If there is one thing I have observed universally, it is that very few people can be gracious about not getting something that someone else got. I call it the "Jimmy has a bigger piece of cake then me" syndrome.
What if our thoughts were transparent? Would we be less likely to use institutionalized religion as a shield...a suit of armor to cover up our real motives? I think this is the root of the alliance you have seen between conservatives and Christians, Botts. By attempting to make the two synonymous (which you have correctly pointed out they are not) it permits conservatives to perpetuate selfishness, greed, racism, and envy under the protective halo of something with a Holy label. You need look no further than Dinesh, and his book that somehow equated financial prosperity with Christianity. What an incredible lie this is! But, it is also what conservatives want to hear, and it permits them to continue in their ways, but now with church sanction.
Sigh.