tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post5096599541937142730..comments2023-09-29T06:01:17.987-04:00Comments on True Christianity: TortureBottshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03968482808951322862noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-8743695730142215742008-09-30T17:54:00.000-04:002008-09-30T17:54:00.000-04:00The scenario where one is asked what they would pe...The scenario where one is asked what they would personally want to do to someone who harmed their family or threatened to do so is a common one in these debates. I've never understood why so many politicians get stumped on it. The answer for most of us is "of course we'd want to do them harm in return." It's only natural. But the question I would counter with is do we expect more from our government or society than merely to reflect our most base instincts as individuals? Or do we want government to reflect what is best in all of us?Pliny-the-in-Betweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16580900408227953736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-41569922747537043792008-09-27T14:23:00.000-04:002008-09-27T14:23:00.000-04:00"A maniac has strapped them to a viciously violent..."A maniac has strapped them to a viciously violent, timed killing machine."<BR/><BR/>Scenarios such as these are 'slippery slope' arguments.<BR/><BR/>How about this one.<BR/><BR/>You are a devout Christian. You become President of the United States. You have read how 'Armageddon' will bring Jesus back to Earth to rule over us.<BR/><BR/>You think that it is time for Jesus to come back.<BR/><BR/>Do you fulfil the prophecy and start a nuclear holocaust or do you give 'man' some leeway?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-26386755270548521702008-09-26T20:06:00.000-04:002008-09-26T20:06:00.000-04:00Many people would feel the same way as you, mac. T...Many people would feel the same way as you, mac. The same way as garyb. It is a common feeling. Your loved ones were unjustly taken away from you(within a hypothetical scenario), and as such your desire for justice to be served will be tinged with a little more rage and little more bloodlust due to it being personal. It is why we have a justice system that doesn't allow for the aggrieved to act as judge, jury, and executioner and claim rights to their impassioned and malicious view of what constitutes just desserts. We would be a society ravaged by an endless cycle of cruel revenge, which would be responded with another cruel revenge due to the perceived injustice from the camp of the punished party. <BR/><BR/>Our personal passions, our desperation to save loved ones and our frantic desires to see justice served just do not mesh well with one another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-14965479110393713182008-09-26T19:01:00.000-04:002008-09-26T19:01:00.000-04:00Botts....I would submit to you, A true decent HUMA...Botts....I would submit to you, A true decent HUMAN would not condone torture.<BR/><BR/>Christian or not. What's wrong is wrong, tagging a religion to it is still wrong.<BR/><BR/>While I think garyb is wrong in his assessment of the torture justification, I must admit: if my family was harmed no punishment would be great enough for the perpetrators of the harm....call it torture, call it reparitions, call it punishment - harm would be netted out in large quantities.machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-65847951754964471822008-09-26T18:22:00.001-04:002008-09-26T18:22:00.001-04:00Godless,I still have hope for you yet.Godless,<BR/><BR/>I still have hope for you yet.Bottshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968482808951322862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-16684477800550661802008-09-26T18:22:00.000-04:002008-09-26T18:22:00.000-04:00"Botts, I trust all is well with you. Looks like y..."Botts, I trust all is well with you. Looks like your blog is off to a good start.<BR/>How do you deal with what many, perhaps most, Christians believe; that the ultimate torturer is their God that condemns unbelievers to hell so they can burn for eternity?"<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, thanks for your message, and I hope all is great with you.<BR/><BR/>It's a great question. I deal with it the same way with what I know.<BR/><BR/>Most Christian believers are way off path, which was foresaw by Jesus in his messages. That is why he preached the Narrow gate versus the Open gate and why warned of bad fruit.<BR/><BR/>He was warning believers of false teachings. Of people who want control and to instill fear.<BR/><BR/>They have never paid attention to the core message. And since they didn't pay attention to it, they cannot understand it and ultimately are walking towards the open gate.<BR/><BR/>Love God<BR/>Love your Neighbor.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, their version of Love isn't the version Jesus talks about. It has to be unconditional and practiced without fear or hesitation.<BR/><BR/>Until this is achieved, the words that is written cannot be understood. Therefore cannot be followed correctly. <BR/><BR/>I'm just trying to be consistent in trying to spread the message. Most Christians will be pissed at me and that is fine. If they can't handle Love God and Love Neighbor being taught to them, that is their fault. But if just a few understand what I'm saying, then this is all worth it.Bottshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968482808951322862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-78357305598668806162008-09-26T17:25:00.000-04:002008-09-26T17:25:00.000-04:00Botts, I trust all is well with you. Looks like yo...Botts, I trust all is well with you. Looks like your blog is off to a good start.<BR/>How do you deal with what many, perhaps most, Christians believe; that the ultimate torturer is their God that condemns unbelievers to hell so they can burn for eternity?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-42667201356975232702008-09-25T15:40:00.000-04:002008-09-25T15:40:00.000-04:00Great post, Botts. Thought-provoking. IMHO, we c...Great post, Botts. Thought-provoking. <BR/><BR/>IMHO, we can NEVER torture. Even in dire scenarios. And really, justifying blanket torture policies based on the (incredibly rare in the real world) dire type of scenario described here, the machine etc, is totally ridiculous. It's not likely to happen. Any dire situation like that, I mean, ticking timebomb nuke hidden in say NYC and we caught the guy that knows where it is... That's a pipe dream. We're justifying torture right now based on that sort of thinking, and who are we torturing? People that are barely involved in the problem. Some of them are probably innocents, but hey, they're ay-rabs anyhow, so who cares, right? Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out. <BR/><BR/>Love Thy Neighbor, and ya don't get to pick your neighbor. If you don't live by this, you're not a Real Christian.Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-20338937683968734132008-09-25T12:01:00.000-04:002008-09-25T12:01:00.000-04:00Garyb...people die. They die naturally, they die ...Garyb...people die. They die naturally, they die accidentally, they die in war, and, rarely, they die because some maniac just wanted to unleash the fury. The fact that the people in your scenario are important to you does not make it any more significant than any other scenario. No more significant than any botched surgery, car accident, or casualty of war who will also feel reluctant to accept condolences from the people at fault. The difference here is that the method of potentially saving your loved ones is inefficient. In addition to that, we throw out all claims of moral superiority, and forfeit any ability to request that others refrain from doing the same when we resort to torture. <BR/><BR/>We are supposed to be an example of justice and morality in the modern world. We better start to act like it.Asylum Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02500952310972756918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-15768214724529473522008-09-25T11:43:00.000-04:002008-09-25T11:43:00.000-04:00"I love my wife and daughter. A maniac has strappe..."I love my wife and daughter. A maniac has strapped them to a viciously violent, timed killing machine. He has been captured and will not tell where. Will you let them be brutally violated and taken from me? Sit with me in the funeral home and explain to me why."<BR/><BR/>Difficult situations require difficult decisions. <BR/><BR/>I'd suspect, that if this crazy individual was insane enough to do this to an innocent family, Torture wouldn't help at all. I'd also suspect that he just might enjoy the return torture you'll give him. You'd be playing on his level.<BR/><BR/>It's a tough scenario, but is it justified in a Christian perspective? As a Christian, can someone justify Torture after understanding the Teachings?<BR/><BR/>I don't think so.Bottshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968482808951322862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-58385661297086031042008-09-25T11:17:00.000-04:002008-09-25T11:17:00.000-04:00I love my wife and daughter. A maniac has strapped...I love my wife and daughter. A maniac has strapped them to a viciously violent, timed killing machine. He has been captured and will not tell where. Will you let them be brutally violated and taken from me? Sit with me in the funeral home and explain to me why.GaryBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813641544713890920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8401041856819184248.post-62690603504541309012008-09-25T02:39:00.000-04:002008-09-25T02:39:00.000-04:00Torture is what happens to your friends, relatives...Torture is what happens to your friends, relatives and countrymen(who agree with you) i.e. 'us'<BR/><BR/>Enhanced interrogation technique is what happens to your enemies, strangers and foreigners(who disagree with you) i.e. 'them'<BR/><BR/>As God's 'chosen' "we" shouldn't be tortured and as Satan's 'minions' "they" certainly ought to be interrogated enhancedly.<BR/><BR/>All we really need to do is 'ask forgiveness' just to be on the safe side anyways, right?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.com